From change@nas.com Sun Mar 7 04:02:50 1999 Received: from debian1.loaner.com (root@pm3-d34.nas.com [206.63.102.35]) by spog.gaertner.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Nase) with ESMTP id EAA09145 for <bugs@gaertner.de>; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:02:47 +0100 Received: by debian1.loaner.com id m10JTul-002fA1C (Debian Smail-3.2.0.102 1998-Aug-2 #2); Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:07:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <19990306190738.A790@debian1.loaner.com> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:07:38 -0800 From: "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." <change@nas.com> Reply-To: "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." <change@nas.com> To: bugs@gaertner.de Subject: Automatic Installation of J on the Debian Distribution of Linux >Number: 21 >Category: j-unix >Synopsis: Automatic Installation of J on the Debian Distribution of Linux >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: neitzel >State: suspended >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: unknown >Arrival-Date: Sun Mar 7 04:07:01 MET 1999 >Last-Modified: Thu Nov 25 16:07:02 MET 1999 >Originator: Kingsley G. Morse Jr. >Organization: >Release: j-402a >Environment: Debian-Linux >Description: The README file in the 4.02a release of J for Linux says to contact this email address about installation problems. There's a much, much, much easier way to install software on Linux than following the instructions in the Roadmap and Install files. The Debian and Redhat distributions of Linux routinely collect all the files required by an application into "packages" which are soooooo easy to administer. They're like smart tar files. If you haven't used them, you're in for a treat. You automatically install all of it with one simple command like $ dpkg -i <package-name> Afterward, all the man pages, libraries, binaries, etc, etc are where they belong and you don't get stupid questions from users. (You know you're a computer expert when you see a car bumper sticker that says "Users are Losers" and you have no idea it's referring to drugs.) Once you've installed the package, it's also recorded in a database for simple system administration, updates and removal. For example, all the files in a package can be removed with an equally simply one line command. No more hunting for stragglers! Anyway, the two popular Linux package formats are "*.deb" and "*.rpm" and I'm happy to report that once you maintain either, an application called "alien" is available to convert between them. Therefor you only need to maintain one format and can use alien to automatically get the other! You can either learn how to write the packages yourself or ask Iverson for a modest sum to hire a college kid to do it for you. Once he shows you how, you can do it yourself. In the long run, I'm inclined to think the hassle of learning how to package J will be offset by fewer stupid install questions from users. Cheers, Kingsley >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Audit-Trail: State-Changed-From-To: open-suspended State-Changed-By: neitzel State-Changed-When: Mon Mar 8 13:15:35 MET 1999 State-Changed-Why: Hello Kinglsey, I am aware of the various packaging tools and these are indeed under consideration. Please note, however, that the each platform uses its own package utility and that the unified, simple "tar" approach at least has the advantage that a single procedure can also simplify life both for you as a user and of course me as a maintainer. I will write a white paper for juggle and bring up this topic on the juggle mailing list. You are of course welcome to join the mailing list: just send an email to juggle-request@gaertner.de with the single _body_ line subscribe Next suggestion is to file your suggestion with the feature hitlist at juggle to check out the importance of the packages for others. Just follow the directions at http://juggle.gaertner.de/hitlist/ Since you are the third person asking for this, you can realistically expect to build up a noce pressure group. :-) Martin . Responsible-Changed-From-To: gnats-admin->neitzel Responsible-Changed-By: neitzel Responsible-Changed-When: Mon Mar 8 13:15:35 MET 1999 Responsible-Changed-Why: From: "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." <change@nas.com> To: Martin Neitzel <neitzel@gaertner.de> Cc: Subject: Re: j-unix/21 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:31:56 -0800 On 13:34, Martin Neitzel wrote: > the unified, simple "tar" approach at least has the advantage > that a single procedure can also simplify life both for > you as a user and of course me as a maintainer. Uh, the "tar" approach isn't nearly as simple for me as a package. The "tar" approach requires me to read Roadmap and Install, follow the directions, check versions and root around for straggling files when I want to update or remove J. It takes about half an hour _if_ all goes well. On the other hand, using a package is a no brainer. It takes 30 seconds and is as simple as typing $ dpkg -s J_4.02.deb Note that using a package is about 60 times faster for the user (that would be me). > I will write a white paper for juggle and bring up this topic on the > juggle mailing list. Thanks. > You are of course welcome to join the mailing list: just send an email > to juggle-request@gaertner.de with the single _body_ line subscribe > > Next suggestion is to file your suggestion with the feature hitlist at > juggle to check out the importance of the packages for others. Just > follow the directions at http://juggle.gaertner.de/hitlist/ [...] OK. I filed my suggestion. Thanks, Kingsley >Unformatted: